ella_rose88 (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
ella_rose88) wrote2010-02-03 08:30 pm
ella_rose88) wrote2010-02-03 08:30 pm
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Musing 1: Arwen Discussion
So today while I was out shopping I spotted two books about the King Arthur legends. Of course I had a look and once again I flipped through and realised that Guinevere was portrayed as having an affair with Lancelot. This, of course, got me thinking about Merlin and after the little spoiler we had about "a certain" person returning in series 3 and future series, it makes me wonder how Lancelot will return and what will happen when he does. Will he once again cause Arthur/ Gwen more heartache then leave once again? As always I have decided to do a little questionnaire because let's face it I love being able to hear other people's opinions.
- In what way do you think Lancelot will return in series 3 and how do you think Gwen and Arthur will react?
- How do you think Lancelot's return in series 3 will effect Arwen?
- Do you think it possible that things will be in some way ressolved between Lancelot, Gwen & Arthur in series 3, considering that they have many other bigger obstacles to face (such as Uther) before they can get married?
- Considering the way Guinevere's character has been portrayed in this series, do you think that the writers will hint at the possiblity of her having an affair with Lancelot in the future?
- How do you want Gwen's character to further develop in series 3?
- How do you want Arthur's character to further develop in series 3
- How do you want Arwen to develop in series 3? What obstacles do you think they will face & do you think they will overcome them?
- What things to do you want to see in series 3 in regards to Arwen?
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2. I think it will actually bring Arthur and Gwen closer. I want Lancelot to be a sort of catalyst in their relationship, i.e Lancelot return, Arthur realizes that he cannot live without Gwen, Gwen realizes that she loves Arthur more. I want them to finally admit their feelings (and I mean FULL ON SAY 'I love you') by the time Lancelot is leaving :)
3. YES! I think that the BBC have focused on Uther as the main problem in their relationship rather than Lancelot. I hope that the Lancelot issue gets resolved in one episode so that Arwen can develop for the rest of the series. (I even think they may resolve the issue, then kill Lancelot off so he can't keep cropping up).
4. No, this is the one thing I think will never happen. All the way through both series' Gwen is seen as a very moral and upstanding character. She would never commit to Arthur if she had ANY doubts about their relationship, and Arthur would never marry Gwen is he thought it wasn't completely what she wanted. I believe that Arwen IS the main love story, and that when they get together it will be so momentous that the writers wouldn't dare belittle it by having Gwen cheat. Besides, an affair isn't really 'BBC family fun time' viewing material lol.
5. I want to see more Arwen, but I also want Gwen to develop as an individual. I want to see her making some mistakes and having Arthur chastise her for once, instead of it always being the other way around. I think her kindness and her tendency to trust too easily will lead her into some compromising situations. I am sick of seeing Gwen as an extension to other peoples problems, namely Merlin, Morgana and Arthur. I want an episode focusing on her and her adventures.
6. Arthur has already developed so much, but in series 3, I want him to be more open toward Gwen. I want him to be more accepting of his feelings for her, like he was in The Last Dragonlord. I also want him to undermime Uther some more and, of course, more friendship with Merlin (hopefully he learns about his magic soon).
7. I think they are going to face Morgana as a main obstacle. I have a feeling that she is going to come back for Gwen, as she was her best friend, and Gwen will have to choose between Camelot and her mistress. I also think that their stations and roles in life will come into conflict- Arthur will never be able to openly accept Gwen in the eyes of Uther and the royal court, so they will have to develop the relationship in secret. Lancelot is obviously a main obstacle, and i think that maybe some more people will find out about them...maybe a couple of knights or even the King?
8. I want more Arwen moments! More kisses, more comforting, more jealousy, more laughing, more cuddles, more LOVE! I want Arthur sending Gwen flowers and Gwen sneaking off to see him after work. Basically, apart from more screen time, I really want them to just accept how they feel. Series 2 saw the dawn of their relationship, but I want series 3 to explore it. I want Arthur defending Gwen, Gwen helping Arthur in situations, and the two of them to just deal with their love- everyone knows that they end up together, the fun part is watching just how it happens :)
AWESOME survey dude :)
x
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I totally agree to all of your answers, but especially about what you said about Lancelot in 2 and about the triangle in 3. I think that if Lancelot and Gwen were meant to be together then (which I don't think at all), then lance would have been a main character. However, he is not and Gwen has been made a servant, therefore creating a whole cinderilla style love story where Arthur and Gwen are the star- crossed lovers, as opposed to the same old Lancelot & Guinevere are in love but she is married to Arthur. I was never really a fan of this.
Because Lancelot isn't a main character I do think that they will probablty kill him off after they have ressolved the fact that Gwen WANTS TO BE WITH ARTHUR (eg: not because Lancelot isn't there).
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2. Being a hopeless romantic I would like Lancelot to bring Arthur and Gwen closer to each other. They are still at the beginning of their relationship and they should realize that they belong together. Still waiting for the three small words from both of them.
3. Lets hope so, but it depends on the long term plan for the whole series. If they go for three series it will be resolved this year, otherwise they have to find another pretext to send him back again and this has to be a very good one.
4. I do not see this. After all it is a family show mainly designed for a young audience. Even if the body count is pretty high for such a program they still show some values and adultery does not feature high there. To keep Lancelot as a fall back option for the unlikely case that Arthur succumbs would not work either.
5. I would like to see her developing more as an individual. In the past she was mostly shown acting in relation to somebody else and not for herself. With Morgana gone we still do not know in what role she will remain in Camelot. I would like to see her solving her own problems for once in a while and making mistakes in the process. As a servant she has to be careful and can often only observe things, but I would love to see her open up a bit more. And I would like to know more about her family background. We do not know anything about her mother and her relations. Same applies to all other main characters. Given the high birthrate in this particular age it is strange that all of them are cut off from family/in-laws.
6. He should find out about the true nature of Merlin soon and this will probably lead to some troubling reassessments of his person and his relationships with others. We saw the development in his character in the last series, but there is still a long way to go for him, especially with regard to his father and his treatment of other peoples feelings. He should free himself more from Uthers influence and act on his own accord.
7. I would like to see more interaction between these two. Arthur will not be able to take Gwen on hunting trips or other expeditions like he does with Merlin to escape the sometimes stiffling atmosphere in Camelot, but there should be some "projects". There will be some conflict between them because of their different stations and both will not be able to act openly with others. This will lead to frustration and Lancelot doing his bit to complicate matters further. Apart from Uther and the whole world Morgana is obviously a force to reckon with. I do not see her champion the relationship between Gwen and Arthur at all. Even if there is no love between Arthur and her, she knows her own value and her position in the court very well and would not have it undermined by her maid. With Uthers death she could till be queen of Camelot. I do not see her craving for a passionate and loving marriage as long as she gets her way.
8. I want more romantic Arwen moments, not only doom and gloom. I want them to accept their feelings for each other and express them clearly. For obvious reasons Gwen was more reluctant to accept her feelings for Arthur, I would like her to be a bit more selfish and let love into her life.
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I'd like A&M to find Lancelot while away from Camelot *insert action scene with awesome camaraderie *. I'd like Arthur to drag Lancelot BACK to Camelot because his knights were flambe'd and he needs good people. I like it to be obvious that Arthur is doing what is right for Camelot even though he KNOWS he is taking a risk with the love of his life.
2. How do you think Lancelot's return in series 3 will effect Arwen?
I expect the angsty - 'Lancelot is the right choice for your long term happiness' from Arthur and Gwen giving him what-for for deciding what is right for her. I want a clear 'Gwen prefers Arthur vibe' and Arthur knows. Lance gets to be tragic pretty hero/standup guy who tells Gwen to get over herself about being a maid. She can be Queen if she only has as much faith in herself as she does in others. In short, while Lancelot may still love Gwen, I want him to champion Arwen because Lancelot IS the perfect knight and Arwen IS the right thing. Lancelot lifts Gwen up whereas in S2 Gwen pulled Lancelot out of the gutter.
3. Do you think it possible that things will be in some way ressolved between Lancelot, Gwen & Arthur in series 3, considering that they have many other bigger obstacles to face (such as Uther) before they can get married?
I hope so, see above. I could see them leaving a seed of doubt regarding class harsh reality vice the right thing.
4. Considering the way Guinevere's character has been portrayed in this series, do you think that the writers will hint at the possiblity of her having an affair with Lancelot in the future?
Never ever. Gwen can show true appreciation for Lancelot without being in love with him. I think they can speak from the heart (beyond casual friends) and that may allow for someone to misinterpret their relationship BUT once committed to Arthur THIS Gwen would never cheat on him.
5. How do you want Gwen's character to further develop in series 3?
I want Gwen to be shown as a leader amongst the lower town where she rallies the people to help Arthur for something. I'd like her to be Gaius' assistant so that she is on the scene more and comes into Uther's inner circle as a part of the CSI-Camelot. I think that will demonstrate her intellect to Uther and give Arthur a silently "you go girl!" moment when she makes a key save/insight. This would take her a step up the class ladder IMO.
6. How do you want Arthur's character to further develop in series 3
I want him to learn Merlin's secret and chose to protect Merlin from Uther. I want Arthur to get engaged in diplomacy away from Camelot. I'd like an episode where Uther is so sick for a few weeks that Arthur has to be in charge of day to day ruling. It'll give him (and us) a greater appreciation for the roll he is going to take on.
7. How do you want Arwen to develop in series 3? What obstacles do you think they will face & do you think they will overcome them?
I want longing looks, stolen kisses, a few seriously awkward sexual tension moments. I want Gwen to also provide good counsel on frequent basis like a trusted friend as well as love interest. I want Arthur to give Gwen hell over something (not Lancelot). I think it would be a sign of development if they can argue and then makeup. Insert Squuee thoughts here! Uther is the main obstacle, Lancelot is another hurdle. I wouldn't mind a threat of arranged marriage (with someone who is actually worthy) and Arthur standing his ground to pick his own wife. I want the obvious conversation about responsibility to produce an heir because he really IS a single point failure in the Pendragon Dynasty.
8. What things to do you want to see in series 3 in regards to Arwen?
See above.
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THIS!! I really think that Gwen can definitely have an appreciation for Lancelot, but that does NOT necessarily mean that she is in love with him. This Gwen I firmly believe would not commit to Arthur unless she was in love with him, because let's face it Lancelot would be the easier choice out of the two. However after 2x04 when Gwen realised how much she hurt Arthur and the lengths he was willing to go to (although he obviously lied about going after her because Morgana begged him)to rescue her, I believe that Gwen would not want to cause Arthur any pain, which she admitted in 2x10 when she said "I too have cause my fair share of hurt".
I loved you answer to 7, but I especially loved you idea of Uther forcing the idea of an arranged marriage to Arthur to someone who is worthy,because I could totally see Gwen trying to convince Arthur to do the right thing for the sake of Camelot and Arthur finally deciding to stand up to his father about allowing him to choose who HE wants to marry.
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Really, I was nodding along as I read your post. Now I'll have to see if I have any of my own thoughts to post... LOL
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I'm sure you will be able to come up with some thoughts, because I would love to hear them.
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thanks -- clearly I spend too much time thinking about these things...
I am just so darn optimistic about this show. It's like looking forward to Chocolate Cake w/ Chocolate Mousse filling for desert. It's going to be great!
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2. Um, I think it will be the 'Once burned, twice shy' routine with Gwen and Lance; Arthur is probably going to come out as the hero.
3. Most likely; I would like to see another female join the cast *coughElainecough* It would also be nice if Morgana came back as not evil yet. Leaving that for S3 finale or S4.
4. No, I really don't think so. She isn't the type to betray a friend or a husband/lover (i.e. Arthur). Although, some people outside this fandom will say differently ('Haters!' says I)
5. I would like Gwen to want to go out and find Morgana, trying to coax her back to the good side. She should meet some interesting characters on the way, too, and Merlin and Arthur should go after her to make sure she's not going to get in any trouble. Lancelot need not apply for this position :P
6. Arthur should further distance himself from his father.
7. They should develop the trust part of their relationship. Both of them are good looking individuals, and there will likely be many females vying for Arthur's affections. Of course, we also have to deal with Lancelot on Gwen's end, but he can easily be dealt with *bends Lancelot over knee and spanks him* Yes, they will surely overcome these obstacles.
8. I was going to say jealous!Gwen, but that would be ooc for her to be jealous unless it's Lady Vivian and Arthur ignores her again *shady eyes* I can't think anymore, my brain imploded with all the possible scenarios of Arwen goodness XD
um, sorry this is in 2 parts cause I don't know when to shut up
2)I think it has the potential to affect them in a major way. Either Gwen will make it clear she wants Arthur and it will strengthen their bond, or she could be torn – throwing them into chaos again. This is all down to how Gwen will react. This is the part that makes me so nervous, a lot counts on Lancelots return next series. In his last visit Gwen and Arthur were not established, Gwen was not in love with Arthur, she did not know Arthur loved her. If the writers make her fall for Lancelot when he comes back and Arthur and Gwen are now established as ‘in love’, this will mess up her character, go against all her development and beliefs. And ruin the storyline for me. Unless something very bad happens between her and Arthur before Lancelot’s arrival, this will be a no avoiding it direct ‘betrayal.’ If the writers do this than I think they hate women, Morgana evil and disloyal, Gwen unfaithful and a liar and Merlin and Arthur in the middle of it all the noble Heroes. But I’m getting way ahead of myself and I really don’t believe the writers would do that to us or her character.
3)In one episode? Doubtful. It could get resolved in the sense that Gwen will make a clear choice between the two men. But the question is will they make her stick to it. will Arthur suspect – and marry Gwen knowing she has feelings for Lancelot or will he be totally oblivious. I think for Gwen to become his wife and Lancelot his Knight. Arthur is going to have to suspect nothing and be totally secure in his relationship with Gwen. Lancelot and Gwen are not the type of people to deceive someone they care about in such a major way. So I think that before the two marry whatever she had with Lancelot will be gone or have developed into a friendship only. I don’t know if this will be resolved next series but I think a resolution to this is definitely going to come. Gwen would never marry Arthur if she was in love with someone else.
4)They do like to give us hints. and there is every chance they might with this. But haven’t they given us a hint already – its not going to be the way people expect. So after listening to what the producers have said I struggle with the idea of an affair. I still think it will end up being a choice for her – will she choose to be with Lancelot? she could have the ‘perfect man’ in him, he is ideal for her and he does not need to be guided in the same way as Arthur does, they share the same opinions, they come from similar backgrounds and they could be happy together, and I think Gwen knows that.
whereas Arthur and Gwen clearly have a knack for irritating each other, they argue and are far from perfect for each other, they come from different worlds and it will always be a struggle for them, even if Arthur made her Queen would the struggle ever end? would she be accepted by the court or the people or the nobility from foreign lands?. I think Bradley James is right – on paper Lancelot is soo much better for Gwen. But she will end up with Arthur. So I think the writers have made it very obvious. The love story – the interesting story is between Gwen and Arthur. An affair with Lancelot would make no sense in the way that they have written the characters established the storylines and made Lancelot into a ‘bit’ part as oppose to a main character (which they could have easily done)
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6)I would like him to become a strong voice of reason against Uther. To be kinder to Merlin and show Gwen that he is willing to fight for their relationship
7)They are sure of each others feelings now so I think the obstacle they will face is Uther. Uther is going to cause trouble even if it is unintentional. They have done the jealousy and the insecurity and doubt now they are going to be tested in faith and patience.
8)I want Gwen to tell Arthur she loves him. I would like them to discuss their future properly, um more kisses and more hugs more meetings and I think they need to be shown to have some fun together. Their scenes are great and intense but I would like to see some normal couple behaviour light and comfortable. I would also like a proper full on shouting match between them - complete with throwing of shoes and flower vases.lol.
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PLEASE! Oy! The fun. And Merlin trying to run around and help patch things up while each rant at him.
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1. I like farmgirl's idea of having Arthur bring him back for Camelot. Athur will be all stoic and duty driven while secretly worried about Gwen and Gwen will be happy to see Lancelot and yeah, I hav to say, she'd be alittle torn, if only because Lancelot is someone she COULD make a life with, unlike the unattainable Arthur.
2I have to say that even if Lancelot never came back, I don't feel that Arthur got any closure. He was positively heartbroken after Lancelot and Guinevere and I don't believe that would just go away because Lancelot isn't in the picture anymore. Plus, I think if they're still in the "it can never be" stage, aware but not really together, Arthur would step aside to allow Gwen to have a chance at happiness with someone who can give her marriage and a life together. and I kind of want to see Gwen not accept that. To confront Arthur over it and how the men in her life tend to make her decisions for her. He could let her know he wants her to be happy and if letting her go makes her happy, he'll do it. and I'd like to see her maybe choose the slightest hope of a chance with Arthur - or the moments they do have - over a life with Lancelot. And all of this could move him closer to standing up to Uther for her.
3 I don't think they can have Lancelot come back without resolving who Gwen loves. One more time I think of her professing feelings for him and still supposedly loving Arthur would kind of weaken her character for me, and I don't want to see that.
4 Not at all. That part of the story is something I've always hated. And that's not the character they spent the last two years developing. Plus, it's a family show, so I'd hope not.
5 Like others, I'd like to see her have her own storyline. I'd actually like to see her have friends other than Morgana and Merlin. I'd like to see interactions with townspeople. To grow into the strong, determined person they've been hinting at.
6 I want him to find out about Merlin and realize that magic isn't the evil Uther thinks it is. I want him to stand up to Uther even more. I want him to acknowledge that Merlin is his best friend and guard Merlin's secret.
7 I like that their feelings are kind of silently acknowledged. I want to see more moments of closeness, more arguments, a real friendship developing. I wonder what would happen if Uther noticed their closeness.
In short, I can't wait to see what happens!
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2.Bit of tension/angst then hopefully it will actually bring them closer, with Gwen realising that Arthur is the only guy for her and with Arthur knowing that she chose him over lancelot.
3. I'm kinda hoping that they do resolve the love triangle next series because if it carries on into other series i think it becomes more of a betrayal because so far gwen hasn't really done anything wrong. She only kissed lancelot because she thought they were both going to die and Arthur had already told her nothing could ever happen between them. Whereas if she went after lancelot again now that arthur has basically said she's the only girl for him and she's kinda given him some hope 'things may change' - 'until they do' I think that would destroy Gwen's character, it would turn her into the potential adultress, which right now, she is miles away from being.
4.I really really really hope not. And I think probably not given the fact that if she and Arthur marry it will be out of love, so it's not like in the legend. Also I know that Gwen has been kinda fickle with her attachments I think they are just trying to portray her as a girl who has only just started to really see men in *that* light, and is only just starting to be noticed by men herself. So i don't think that's any justification for seeing a potential adultress in her. So no, with the character development so far it wouldn't fit at all, but there is always a chance the writers will do a u-turn and make me very upset/angry.
5.She needs her own storylines!!!!!!!
-More of the future Queen moments without Arthur around.
-Would love her to find out about Merlin before Arthur, boy would that be a dilema and a half.
-Would like to see some more bff moments between her and Merlin.
-Would be great to have a very dramatic reunion for her and morgana, have some home truths for both of them, test their friendship.
-And would like to see some more of kick-ass Gwen, preferably saving the guys' butts.
6. Probably more of the same really from series 2, the writers have set him on a path very well, with him beginning to discover what kind of king he wants to be. Only thing I really want is for him to work out the stuff about merlin's magic and of course more Arwen!
7.Lancelot of course, hope they get over this one.
Uther, don't reckon they will get over this one next series, I think it would be too soon, I reckon the writers will want to drag out the forbidden love stuff
8. -Some really short and sweet moments without drama or angst, like in ep 6, and some of the ones at the beginning of ep 10
-For merlin to play cupid
-For them to have a major fight, but its gwen whose done something wrong (e.g. believes that some kind of injustice is being done, seeks to fix it, though arthur tells her not to, and just makes it a whole lot worse and Arthur is mad)- it would be nice to see gwen make some mistakes, particularly one that links to her role as future queen
-lots of more great kisses of course :P
-A/G sneaking around
-more pep talks from Gaius, preferably to Arthur this time
-jealous Arthur
-for Gwen to accept Arthur's assurances
-more longing stares and secret smiles
-and the 'I love yous' but preferably at a really bad/awkward time
-Some awkward moments around Merlin
And generally, just way more Arwen :D
Great survey x
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You have made really great points in there too about Gwen and Arwen development that I liked. You're right, hopefully they will give Gwen more Queen like storylines separate from the guys and will ressolve the "lancelot" issue. I hope that they don't leave it open because this Gwen may not be perfect but I don't think she would marry Arthur unless she absolutely loved him. But with the writers we don't know, although it sounds like they love the angst.
Yes I'm hoping that when Morgana returns that we see some really great, dramatic scenes between them, because I hink they work well together both Katie and Angel but they didn't have many scenes together in series 2 which was sad.